Searching for the Bookends - The Twilight Singers' Greg Dulli in interview

Author: Andrew Lawless

 

It's difficult deciding what to ask Greg Dulli. Difficult because of the span of work he's produced, people he's played with, and even projects he's currently working on. For example, ignoring his long career as front man for the Afghan Whigs, last year alone he released the third Twilight Singers album, She Loves You, toured extensively with them, played keyboards on tour for the Mark Lanegan Band, recorded tunes with Lanegan for their long awaited "gutter twins" record, and took time out to produce the latest album by one of Italy's most interesting prospects Afterhours. As we speak he's in Milan, having temporarily joined Afterhours as a guitarist for their current Italian tour. Where do you start?

To call him promiscuous wouldn't be off the mark, musically speaking at least. Indeed, he puts it in those terms when I ask if, having worked on so many collaborative projects, he'd be tempted back into a full-time band situation. "It’s like I was married for 15 years, and now I’m single and get to fool around, - he laughs, - and yet still get to have substantial relationships but without the commitment factor that would probably tighten me up!". In fact he has a basic band chosen for his next Twilight Singers record, an album of original material this time round, which he's already started to record.

"I sort of have settled on a band, - he explains, - having been in a band for that length of time, my desire to get back into a band situation, I can say was not as high as most people's. You have to kind of weed through. I’m not 20 years old anymore, growing up with somebody, going drinking with them every week, so I have to kind of check people out, and the best way for me to do that is in the recording studio".

There's the distinct impression talking to Dulli that the She Loves You album of covers, as inspired as it was, has been a preparatory work. A way to get both himself, and the musicians he chooses to work with in shape for the next round of original material. It's not unprecedented in his career. Prior to the recording of 1993's album Gentlemen, the Afghan Whigs recorded and released an e.p of covers Uptown Avondale. "I think the best way for me to clear my decks is to play other people’s stuff and to get into something, - he agrees, - When I’m listening to someone elses music and playing along, I’m usually playing something that’s foreign to me. So it’s a great way to prepare myself. As I prepare this next record it’s become kind of obvious to me that the reason that I did do the covers record was to do this".

In a Pop Matters interview Dulli suggested his next album would be called "Period Rush", referring to a history-induced high which would be outlined by referential nods to music from the '70s back to the '30s. This, it would seem, has already changed. "Now I have a song called Period Rush rather than an album. The album is now going to be called Powder Burns. It’s a multi-entendre, and I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions", he laughs with a throaty chuckle. He won't be drawn on the subject matter, reasonably suggesting "Whatever I would tell you would only spoil it for you. I can’t ever tell anyone what my songs are about because once I let them go they’re not mine anymore".

He does let us know that it's eyed for a January 2006 release. At the same time he gives an interesting insight into his creative process, when I ask him what type of songwriter he is: "I’m a narrative songwriter, - he responds, - I think it’s because I have written short stories and scripts, and I have to follow some sort of linear path, at least for myself. I write songs for me and only when I get them into some sort of presentable shape do I ever consider playing them for somebody else. I’m constantly looking for bookends. The first song and the last song, because then it becomes a lot easier to drop crumbs on the trail as it were". And so, for this next album he's found at least one of those bookends: "I don’t have the final song, but I do have the first song. That one is actually a little more important to me, because of the two bookends the first one unlocks what I’m going for. Now that box is unlocked".

Unlocking the narrative thread is something that comes naturally to Dulli. He admits, though, that there's a different process, and a different motivation between writing songs and short stories. Much of the Afghan Whigs and Twilight Singers music has been tagged dark, both in its subject matter and musical tones. Does that in turn suggest the music comes from a dark mood? Or, to put it another way, can you write a song when you're happy? "I've written," he starts, then pauses to think, before continuing "maybe one album when I was happy and that was the final Whigs record [1965 - released in 1998]. That has probably the happiest songs I’ll ever write. I probably shouldn’t say that, but what the hell. When I’m happy I’m not drawn to play. I’ll sit and jam with somebody when I’m happy, but writing a song almost never. It’s a cathartic thing". Short stories are a different thing though: "I can definitely do that when I’m happy but they almost never turn out happy, - he laughs, -, so I don’t know what that says about me!"

And if the creative process is different, between writing a song or a short story, which is more satisfying to do? Can they be compared? "They’re completely different things - he responds, definitively before admitting, - A song to me, because it holds an emotional crest with the music, is probably a bit more satisfying for me. I can go around at night driving in my car listening to it. Be proud of myself [laughs].

What about influences? Josh Ritter, and subsequent interviewees in Three Monkeys Online have all pointed out the importance of literary figures on their songwriting? Is that something shared by Dulli? "I’ve definitely be influenced by writers. My two favourite writers ever are Byron and London, just for their sheer use of language. For their ability to make me feel something that I didn’t even know that I felt. I think they were both really naturals at finding simple truths and eloquently portraying that on a page. As far as songwriters go, fuck man... Everyone from Robert Johnson to Bob Dylan, to Marvin Gaye and everyone in between and on top of them".

For someone who obviously devotes plenty of thought to his craft ("I’m a really vicious editor of my own material so no matter how much I write you’ll never get a double album out of me"), it may seem incongruous that he has released so many cover versions during his career, culminating in last year's superb album She Loves You. In reality he's telling a story with this as well, albeit with other people's songs. "I drew those songs up, in that order - he says about his choice of songs - to present a narrative. There was a narrative in those songs, in that order, for me. Again, I can’t be responsible for someone else’s listening experience but for my own I hear a story and its conclusion". While he's reticent about leading the listener in any pre-determined direction, he did have this to say about She Loves You, on his website Dulli's Inferno: "she loves you means she doesn't love me. this is a tale of longing and of love unrequited. Of lost love. Wasted love. 'there's been an accident' love.... I wanted the songs to flicker with hope and to shine a light on and comfort a lonely heart".

She Loves You, in common with covers albums from artists like A Perfect Circle or Cat Power (who receives particular praise from Dulli - "fucking fantastic"), shows how a cover version can be an exercise in creativity, and yet in recent years it seems to have been universally denigrated, reduced to the status of a contractual obligation or a cynical easy launch vehicle for the latest glossy pop sensations. Where does an album of cover versions fit in a culture that values authenticity over interpretation? "If you think about interpretation – without interpretation we don’t get Miles Davis, we don’t get Sam Cooke, we don’t get Patsy Cline, we don’t get Billie Holiday, we don’t get Duke Ellington, - he argues passionately. - So if people are going to only validate writers, well, that’s their loss. My view of music is a bit more three dimensional".

His view of music is three dimensional and ecletic. The songs on the album range from John Coltrane's A Love Supreme and Lewis Allan's Strange Fruit through to Bjork's Hyperballad. Is there a difference in approach when covering a song like Strange Fruit, that's been done so many times by so many different people, as opposed to a 'virgin' song like Hyperballad that no-one has touched? "Well for instance with Black is the colour, - he responds, choosing the penultimate song on the album, - the version that I know by heart is the Nina Simone version. The Patty Waters version on the other hand is fucking terrifying. The pathos that was involved in her version of the song was definitely influential on how I approached the song, but in the end it’s me and whatever instrument I’m pulling it up on. That’s what decides what the song will be like. I really can’t be concerned with what came before me. I can only acknowldege it and then put my own spin on it".

In fact it is with one of the never before covered songs that Dulli thinks he learned the most, changing his impression of the song through the process of playing and recording it: "I think it was probably Hyperballad more than any of the others. I actually feel like I uncovered what I thought Bjork was talking about. That song was always kind of abstract for me, and I think I found her meaning in it by recording it. Whether it is actually hers or not, it’s what I think it is about".

Not only has the album been lauded by everyone from Mojo through to Playboy, but the versions of the songs have also received praise from their original authors, for example both Bjork and Martina Topley-Bird loved Hyperballad and Too tough to die respectively. Then again, when he was in the Afghan Whigs they got praise from Barry White and Mick Jones for their covers of Can't get enough of your love and Lost in the Supermarket. He's modest about it, but you can tell that he's enormously proud of the complimentary reception his versions have received: "It’s an homage, and when the writer him or her self appreciates what’s been done, you really can’t worry about what anybody else says, can ya?"

For an artist who is both a) a lyricist and b) a fan with eclectic taste, what has it been like touring and working in Italy, listening to Italian music? "I’ve always been kind of a nomad. I’ve lived in a whole load of places. It shakes me out of a comfort zone that I get in to whenever I’m in one place too long. It makes me look at life in a different way. So I definitely listen to Italian bands – sometimes they’re very good, and sometimes, like in any country, they’re shit. The Afterhours, and Manuel [Manuel Agnelli - main songwriter in Afterhours and sometime keyboard player in the Twilight Singers] in particular are very inspirational. He’s a very centred, present person, and kind of a shy person, but when he goes on stage he’s a fucking animal. I think helping someone explore their muse as thoroughly as he does, and they do, is emminently inspirational to me".

But what of the language problem? Can you get the full effect of the music without understanding the lyrics? "I think so! - he answers, convinced. - The record I’m listening to right now, more than anything is Lágrimas Negras, and it’s by Bebo and Cigalla. Bebo is an 85 year old Cuban piano player. Cigalla is a 35 year old Spanish singer. I’ve no idea what exactly they’re singing. I can look at the titles of the songs and get an idea. The title of the album is Black Tears. It’s so unnecessary for me to understand the lyrics, because I can understand by the timbre of his voice what he’s feeling, and what I’m supposed to feel. I’ve always been a phonetic singer and writer, you know. The vowel sounds alone are worth the price of admission [laughs]".

But, not to press a point, while there are obvious rythmic properties to a good lyric, there is also a narrative effect, particularly with songwriters like Dulli. If you've written a lyric that has meaning, doesn't it require that you understand the words? He's adamant about the power of rythm and mood: "For me I write the music first always, then I create a melody based on phonetics. Once that is set, I can sit and fit words in to the sounds that I’ve made with my mouth. Believe me, writing lyrics is very important to me, and when I begin it takes a lot, but the actual melody itself, you almost always have to trust your first instinct". And, judging on the pedigree of his work, who are we to argue.